Re-building a 78' from a total first timer! will it run?

[TimmyT]

Just wanted to stop trolling and start report on my progress so I can add to the galaxy of xs400 info here and the legion of people dedicated to helping others get their bike running too. Maybe cheer me on, maybe scout for some anwsers here, or maybe help me anwser some questions I have scattered in my posts (and my brain). This bike is 6 years older than I am and still has some mass appeal. Yamaha must have done something right.

I have ridden a motorcycle but never owned or worked on one other than polishing my dads honda shadow in the spring when I was a kid. Fixing bicycles was my thing as I grew older I got into electronics repair; as a hobby anyway. Now I have the keys and title (that I think I got for a fair price) to a 1978 xs400 with a 2L0 serial number. I knew it would take a bit of before I would be
My friend had it jump started and it supposedly ran, but he told me It has had an electrical issue that should be right up my alley...(and the bike has no battery, haha)! I took the bait and here is what happened since .... forgive my ramblings. I dont need to hear the bike run to know that I'm gona fix it. The toughest part is the bike is stored at a friends, so I only get a few hours here and there ... but I kinda like my friends tools better anyway. Logistical issues asside.

I removed the wiring harness and continuity tested the ENTIRE F'n thing. I went over wiring diagrams 1000 times (seariously as me what a wire colour is off hand). I tested what components that I could just to check any combination of issuss occouring off of multiple lists. I found some schematics that were very close but not perfect to my model.The mention of a headlight saftey relay was absent from most schematics. I mapped it all out and the only issues (in theory) that I could find was the messy fuse pannel with 2x15A fuses a 25A main and one 10 A fuse missing, with a bit of corrosion in the mix (battery hose is intact but probabally not used by PO). The next issue that I found was the Dark Green and Chocolate wires that went to the front signal lights were both broken and just twisted together, some heat shrink, proper solder, blade fuses and insulated weatherproof fuse holders seemed appropriate for the job. Those two issues seem pretty standard and logical on these type of motorcycle. The last thing that I dont get that may help me sort a future issue is that the hardware for the ignition switch was missing and I am assuming that is has to be grounded to neck for everything to function? I've sorted the electrical bugs for now, but also figured .. hey lets dig a little deeper and see what we can do.

V-reg to be checked, rectifier is good, every button, toggle, brake, and switch, contact are all functionioning properly and only made better contact with cleaning. I have cleaned up any corroded connectors and have a tube of dielectric grease to help weather seal, protect, and assist continuity within the clips of the wiring harness.

I ordered new clutch and throttle cables as both were stretched out too far for comfort...even after possible adjustments. Ordered Motion Pro cables which should do the trick.

Ordered new Carb holder/manifold boots as the current ones were badly weathered. the rubber on the otherside of the carb attached to the air filters is in great condition though. I notices as I was working around the engine that there are little rubber dampers between the engine fins, can they be removed, or will the bike feel like riding a shocker? Will it get louder, or just less comfortable?

I have the carb off for cleaning, as well as the petcock. My friend had emptied the old gas for me for storage and when removing the petcock I the fuel filter looked like it was pretty clean...I rattled the tank and found another fuel filter inside that was about 1/3 the size of the one that attached to the petcock. The tank looks clean and rust free on the inside but I wonder what floated through while the first filter in the tank had floated off. Cleaning the carb seems mandatory now. I plan on switching to pods too, so I guess the jet sizes have to go up? and I am assuming that the pods can only be used with the "H" rubber adapter so that the vacume tube can be attached?

Removed the clutch lever, kickstart bar, footbrake pedal, chain guard, battery box, headlight, signal light mounts,main controll gauges, ignition, Ignition coils... and a goofy blue air horn that the PO added to substitute his missing horn. I plan on rust cleaning and polishing the chrome stuff, repainting the other appropriate items. It seems that This bike fought the rust off hard over the years, guessing it was stored outdoors for at least 1/3 of its life so far.

I have cleaned everything that has come off so far but only to the point of starting prepwork. Once I get some nasty rust out of the spedo and tach bucket I can start putting that back together.

Oil and filter change already done, with some new spark plugs properly gapped for the swapping.

Changed every light except the headlight and I kept the spares on the side. 2x 1157 for brakes. 4x 1156 for signals. Lastly 8x 1893 for the controll lights. No LED's.

Lastly is the metric hardware dilema Im having. I want to replace hardware on the metal foot pedals because the old ones are actually slightly bent and also change the handlebar controll hardware to stiffen them all up a bit with some rust free nuts. I have also stripped the v-reg screws, broke a bolt on the brake handle, and had to fix an issue with the PO cutting off the bolt ends on the controll mount plate .... which was all one piece and now has 2 detachable mounting bolts. So when Im not trolling here I am spending hours with clerks at Home Depot, Home Hardware, Canadian Tire, and Fastenal. So that they can help me find about 20 pieces of hardware worth about $4. Almost everything with the right thread count will be the wrong length but as long as its too long and not too short you can grind them down as needed ... which i think Im gettin pretty good at myself.

So its gettin there, I plan on cleaning and painting as i strip it down and makin sure its put back together right. For now Im waiting on the cables and manifold/carb gasket to ship, cleaning the carb and petcock, and some light sanding/painting. planning on putting some finishing touches like carving up the seat, fenders, and some new dust covers. Might need a petcock kit for this still, maybe seals for the master brake cylinders, brake bleed,

Pikkies on the way let me know if there is anything in particular you want a closeup of.
Oh yes and I will have a small array of parts up for grabs in a month or so when I get it running so keep an eye out.

STILL CONFIDENT almost $300 deeper and I dont even have a battery and trickle charger yet.

 

[Greasey Fingers]

Hello and welcome what an epic post Sounds like your on it, just check to see if you have spark and fuel happening and give her all you got!

 

[226dark]

hmmmmm, it seem that you do have SPARK!
Very nice intro and greeting there. You're in for some fun! Always remind yourself of it. Sometimes stuff is PO's doing and worse yet some is from the 2 previous owners to him!

When you say hardware for the ignition switch was missing, not sure, but no it's not grounded to the neck as you say.
The relay you say that you were expecting to find on wiring diagram, i don't know for 78 E, but maybe says turn relay (like 2E) on the diagram or not labeled at all like the F http://www.xs400.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=3853&d=1290033277

With pods and. . ."rubber adapter so that the vacume tube can be attached?", not needed, you can use one of those dinky air filters to allow the case to breath. Maybe by the lawnmower stuff in the store?

For hardware stuff, screws and whatever , you can find lots at hardware store but you will not always find anything or everything. There are bolts, screws etc. that you will only find with the part number and from a yamaha dealer or other.

I will wait and be interested to hear the answer to the cute little rubber dampers, which I always wanted to ask, haha.

Sounds like you are getting yourself into it so a big welcome. And anyone who read you're intro should get to see pics Way to go

 

[Arclight88]

Welcome TimmyT, and that is an epic post. You and I are going down the same road of removing, fixing, cleaning, painting, a putting back all the parts. A better hobby is hard to imagine.

Engine fin dampners suppress the frequency oscillations that occur in free standing fins. As your motor revs up/down the spectrum, the oscillations vary. Vibration should always be minimized to protect the engine, and secondarily, environmental noise. Bottom line for me on this is to replace the dampners to help save your motor.

Looking forward to the pics!

Hang tough and I want to hear more...

 

[drewpy]

welcome to the forum.

my dampers on the tracker have been taken out, they are mainly for reducing the noise from the engine. In my resto xs400 I cleaned them up and they spell out 1L9 (parts number of my bike)

 

[comexclarity400]

welcome to the forum dude as i got told when i joined, your bike doesnt exist, until we see the pics

 

[TimmyT]

Thanks you to the people and posts that helped me even get this far with it. Now I feel bad for trolling too long... and then unloading a big and well overdue progress report. I will have all pictures of the entire build on my profile but here are a few screenshots. There are a few things I wont be able to test without 12v and for now it looks like A LOT of prepwork but I have some inspiration now.

My I was at my buddies place in his backyard where I have the bike for now and noticed (cause they just cut their hedge down) that the neibour has 2 bikes under coveres and I bet they are as unkept as his yard! My firend says they are Yami's so maybe I can score some parts or inspire the neibour to get off his duff and do something with them!

*as of now I have 75 photos in my album, feel free to check it out

 

[Greasey Fingers]

nice one i like the pipes you got on there.

 

[TimmyT]

Here is even more pics. I like the idea of slimming the bike down, perhaps trade the stock signal light housings for something different or even cut them down if possible. I would like to change the brake light for something smaller, move the plate mount. A custom battery box would look slick and probabally be easier and create more room than trying to do anything with the stock box. I found a seat that inspired me on the direction I am going to go with mine. I will be looking out for some tastefull ways to modify my chain guard as well, possibly hiding it better or adding speed holes.

Thanks for the support guys, all the work taking this bike apart and rebuilding it so it will run right pales in comparison with the amunt of work and prepwork involved in getting it to look and feel just right. If anyone needs me I will be in my tyvex wire brushing, sanding and buffing ... or I will still be drilling out the master cylinder. Did I mention how much I hate rust?

 

[steeze]

Take a look at my build thread... we have almost the same bike and I've done a few things your trying to accomplish. I'll tell you right now that I tried modifying the stock turn signals and in the end your better off just getting new low-pro ones off ebay. I cut and welded mine and ended up buying new instead.

 

[OleDoc]

nice bike and welcome

 

[TimmyT]

Things are starting to look slick. The misses gave me the whole day and even kept me company at some points to take on 9 hours straight of wire brushing, sanding, wet sanding, removing rust from chrome and steel the whole time thinking on how it is going to look when its done. I now realize that there are alot of things I most likley will not have the funding, or patience to wait how it goes together. I thought this might turn into some custom thread, but realize that I should keep it as a simple restore. As ironic as it is I may have to flare a few things in the end to compensate for missing parts.

I believe all of the parts that I have are original and things will go back together nicley. I feel i am at the middle mark having accepted that less can be more. There will always be birthdays and christmas to upgrade the signal and brake lights or long weekends to think about cutting or bending. Chrome seems to be just as much work as any paintjob but so much more worth it

Carb and petcock are still waiting to be cleaned. (other fuel dilevery options?)
New clutch and throttle cable arrived and I drilled out the master cylinder until the bit was stripped and both batteries died ... almost there.

 

[TimmyT]

Update with more pictures on their way.
I did what I believe to be the second last polish of all the chrome stuff bringing the luster down on all the chrome just a little bit.
I did at least 3 coats of gloss black over very nicley taped parts. Followed by 3 healthy coats of clear coat and I would say it is looking pretty slick. Especially when you consider all of the wire brushing, sanding, cleaning, sanding again and cleaning again to get all of this stuff ready. On top of that I was quenching my thirst, with some tunes playing out my car windows and my little paint line set up like a semi-pro in our underground parking garage. The paint and polish are looking great right now I think when they aractually brought out to reflect some sunlight they will be brilliant.

I am going to wrap this stuff up when it cures and never let it see daylight until the bike goes together again. I have decided not enough is getting done or can be done with the other half of the bike at my friends. That is my next mission: to transport the bike into the parking garage so that I can clean everything do some good tape again after prepwork and give the rest a good paint and polish as well. I bought a 10 pack of drillbits to keep working on the master cylinder, and am looking into another fuel delivery option, as well as aquiring some carb rebuild kits.

The main benifit I am seeing while seperating paint and polish items carefully is that every piece was completed during the same conditions since I was the only one working on them. I was careful in my setup and had very little to no overspray and the chrome looks uniform. Not much more digging till it can start to fit right back together

 

[TimmyT]

Here are the pictures!!!

I have some street cred to issue to bentwrench, I bathed a handfull of hardware in a vinegar bath for a few days. I wiped each piece down as I took it out and they all look new again. Now if I can only change the vinegar scent to new car smell.

Forgive the cell phone pics I can take some hi-res when the bike is done. Enjoy! (tons of photos on my album for refrence)

 

[bentwrench]

I accept beer in place of cred, every time.

Nice progress. Once my bike is back into (roughly) one piece, we should go for a ride.

 

[TimmyT]

I might not be riding it for another month or so. Im trying to balance a whole lot of things right now. There are a few kinks to work out. Whats left before I put it back together with all of the new as well as old and cleaned up components is a handfull of work broken down into about 4 hour incraments that I find I can best complete in late in the evening in the parking garage. I have to run 100 ft of extension cord from the parking garage elevator room through the garage to my parking space in able to run a drill or grinder, and on the first night when I wanted to use my compressor I blew the breaker (with no access to it) and I had to wait a couple days till the maintenance guys got around to reseting it.

The bike is finally moved into the parking garage! Great, now I ended up taking the shocks, rear wheel, chain, and both sets of brakes off. I went at the frame with the grinder because apparently Yamaha never hired one to clean up the little tags on the metal after it was welded together. It was brutal on my sandpaper and on my hands until i cleaned it up. I used the wire wheel after to clean some more and ended up removing the black surrounding the logos on 3 spots. Logos also removed from the tank.
I am halfway through brushing the engine, and only really have the rear swingarm to sand down.

Im not sure where to go with the polish, I last used 260 or something like that and aluminum foil afterwards for a very deent amount of time on each piece. I was told chrome dip would be innexpensive but wonder how hard would it be to achieve on my own. I know i could go down to 600 then 1000 before buffing. But how much time would I be saving? and at what cost?

While I still have the grinder out does anyone know if I can cut the cylinder shaped thing off the front neck? is there a solid piece behind it? I just dont want to cut it off if it will comprimise frame integrity because I dont have a welder to fill anything in.

Whats left? The brakes need bleeding and some quick paint, the rear wheel is going to have the paint stripped, the bearings will need to be repacked, still drilling out the master cylinder (unless you have one for sale), a little more sanding so the paint will stick, cleaning before paint (and an oil pan full of stuff). I also want to take the front forks off before paint so that I can put gator dust covers on and change the fork oil (is there some special tool needed for this?).

I keep telling myself all this is worth cause I really just want to ride. (more pics added)

 

[TimmyT]

this bike sure does cast a big shadow

 

[TimmyT]

Holy Crap ...huge updates to post fellas... and hey feel free to jump in on this thread with Questions or anwsers I have been over every part at this point with the exception of disassembling the engine!

A few more borken bolts but with the right carbide extractor drill bits now I and like 9 for 12 extracting screws! I just finished a complete teardown of my carbs and i boiled them for a couple hours then cleaned them all up with carb cleaner but I want to go through the process again for good measure. First time around I couldnt get the starter jets out of the needle jets cause they were stuck in. Stupid me pounding them from the float bowls inward ... then I figured out there was a damn washer overtop Floats are still useable but i dont like the few indents they have + one was stuck cause of a bent pin holding it in. I want to get more jet needles cause I stupidly used a very fine sandpaper to clean them up a little beyond what i was getting out of carb cleaner ... but I realize I dont want an issue with this when its all together so Im rolling with it. I ended up using flute extractors to get the starter jets out because there was no give with a screwdriver. I guess mikes xs is going to get an order from me. I think I am going to take the dive and order a jet kit from 6 Sigma and not try the guessing game. But all in all I am moving foward.

The rims are both done, Rear one is stripped right down to alloy along with the rotor and the front got a nice coat of flat black with the rotor. I shaved the spoke look back into the front with a razor blade and sandpaper but didnt go all the way to the outer edge, I left about half an inch to give it a chrome wall tire look. Then I finished em up with some chrome hand grenade valve caps. I have a brand new battery fully charged and waiting for the wiring harness to go on. Picked up some hardware, and a new rear tire. Things have been moving along. Paint and prep is pretty much done. I located where some mystery hardware fits, greased everything.

I smashed out the bearings thinking I could grease them they are sealed units but lets just say they didnt come out that way so The only stock bearings I got to grease were the steering bearings. I ended up getting a whole new set for both front and rear... and ended up getting chewed out cause I was banging them out at 2am and my whole apartment building could hear it through the pipes. I ended up draining the old black oil from the forks and just using a miximizer seringe to measure oil going in ... and then using a dog ear medicine seringe to actually inject the oil back in through the drain plug hole cause its so small(only works with the forks off cause they need to be upside down). The fork gators came in and the front end is prettymuch done. Turns as smooth as butter.

I have been soaking my chain in chain lube and wiping it down then re soaking it for over a month now I want the rag to be prefectly clean after wiping it so I know its done. I want the back end done soo bad too but Im being patient with the carb in hopes I can build from the inside out.

Putting it back together requires alot more logic than disassembly... especially if I want to keep the paint looking fantastic.

I took the tank to a friend and with the logos removed he filled in the sides and primed it for me. He also sandblasted the whole thing and coated the inside. Im growing impatient for the airbrushing to be done... I might just go gloss black if it takes any longer. The seat is really the only thing left to really change the look of the bike and I dont think its cheap to get done either.

Oh and petcock was totally rebuilt ... and I neded up getting a second one from later xs that still fits my bike so because 78 petcocks were discontinued might not mean I will have an issue but I am prepared just in case. Got some clear fuel lines with an inline filter now.

I cant wait to ride .... I have been growing my hair and beard since the time I brought the bike into my parking garage. haha the bike is looking alot better than me these days ... alot less hairy too.

sorry for more huge post nonsense but I hope I can go back to trolling forums after Im done to help others sort out issues that I have dealt with in the process... kinda like the way everyone here helped me to even get to the point that I am at and beyond.
Again if there are any questions about taking anything apart and such Im the man with the anwsers ... as far as putting it back together... maybe ask me when I cut my hair!

*** check my album there are more photos going up and might be a good refrence for any visual learners!

 

[TimmyT]

The front end is pretty much done with the exception of the headlight and wiring harness. The battery box is back on and the rear inner fender is attached, the footpegs are back from paint and sitting on nicley waiting to help mount the exhaust pipes. Everything on the front end is torqued. and im waiting on confirmation of a few things. Still waiting to order carb parts which should be placed online THIS WEEK. Also the back tire can go on when the calipers are done being re-build, cleaned, painted and then bled. The chain can go on after as well as the sprocket cover, chain guard, and the clutch ball bearing adjustment can be made.

When the carb parts come in and can be rebuilt I will be looking at timing.

I just threw some art and $300 at someone to begin paint on the tank. I am thinking the seat will have to be customized as well. A new seat pan would be nice as well as this seat is big!

I lost a bracket that i will have to fabricate that will hold one side of the exhaust mount brackets and mount to the rear footpeg bolt for stability. things are looking foward.
I should start cleaning my tarp again as when the carb, rear tire and exhaust pipes are back on it I will deffinatley start using it again!

 

[TimmyT]

Holy Crap Im actually going to be able to ride soon!

The only thing that is not on the bike are the tank, petcock, seat and battery.

The airbrush I had planned fell through ...what a waste of time, but the tank is coated, ready for a simple gloss black coat. I ordered a new gas cap rubber gasket as this is something that slipped my mind while my tank was being held on to.

Battery is ready for some trickle charge before tossing it in. I have not yet tied down the wire harness because until the bike fires there is a chance imay have to move things around. I cleaned all connections with electrical contact cleaner and flooded with dielectric grease. The wiring harness found its original resting place fairley easy which was nice.

So My last big task will be to get my turkey carving knife and sacrafice one of my leather jackets to spruce up seat on this badboy.

Everything is as tight as its ever going to get on this puppy, the clutch has some nice snap and spring action /tension, the throttle snaps back from the slightest turn and will open the carbs up all the way when full throttle. Brakes are bled and have full grab when compressed halfway throught the swing.

Looks Like its time for a haricut for me soon! Im happy to have made it this far, never pictured myself going this far but there is no turning back.

And apparently these bikes turn your sperm into super swimmers because after joining the xs club I am also joining the new daddy club with a new baby on the way. Photos to come soon!.........almost there, so close I can feel the wind in my hair